What first brought you to Consciousness Studies?

I was in the foundation year here, and Dennis came in to teach a block. He began to speak almost immediately about the relationships between things that I always had a feeling had to be there, but which no one else had the language to describe in the way he did. In just a few minutes--I tell people this--it's almost as if the light shifted. Something really moved, and I knew right then that I had to find out what this was all about. The next year was the first full Consciousness Studies program, so I joined. It's one of the few things that I have ever done in my life that I have not had second thoughts about--it was just "yes" all the way. It still is.

What about Consciousness Studies was the most memorable for you?

It was amzing to be on the receiving end of someone who is doing a living teaching. He was always giving us something that was alive for him, and we received more from that than just the explicit content. Also it was an experience in time, an experience of the spiritual world, in a way that I never received from my Catholic upbringing. It was completely different.

What is the work that you do now?

The work I do now is that I write--I do copyrighting for the anthroposophical pharmacy. But the real work I do actually involves how I interrelate and work with the people that I am with. That is always what it is. In fact that is kind of what I am discovering--the real difference between what you do and how you do it.

How has Consciousness Studies stayed with you over time?

I feel changed, irreversibly, even though I can't really describe that in words. I can hardly remember what it was like before Consciousness Studies because it is like something that is under my skin. The way I see things... I forget all the time, but it is still there. I always keep falling asleep, but there is something that keeps waking me up, and I have tools now that I didn't have before. The toughest part is engaging the will to stick with it. That is the single biggest challenge. I think that's true for everybody, but I'm not sure.

How has Consciousness Studies affected your inner life?

It has given me the tools to observe it, to know what I'm observing, and to be able to make changes in both my inner and outer life, through the inner, when I can do it. That's the work--that's what is so hard. But at least when I am ready, I have the tools to do that. The other thing is that it has really shown me what having an inner life is all about. It's the biggest tool we have, it's just that we don't all know it. And if you don't know it, and when you are not conscious about it, then it can work against you in a way. I'm still discovering how important that is. That's why I say it doesn't matter what you are doing out there, it can apply to anything.

If you were to give a brief description of Consciousness Studies, what would you say?

I would describe it as--and people have asked me a lot--it's the work of discovering the interrelationships between all things. If you have the interest and the will, there is no end to where you can go with that. But on a more immediate level, when I first went to Dennis to talk to him about taking the program, he said something to me that I still remember. I asked him if art and science were both involved, and he said "It's the art of science and the science of art". A light went on in my head, because in my life those things have been really strong, and the only common ground was my interest, and how they could relate to each other was unknown. It's not just a catchy phrase, though, it really redeems what art and science have become in our culture today. Here's this person, breathing new life into it, and saying that anybody can do this. It's very hard to describe it to somebody--it depends on where they are coming from--different people are asking different questions when they say "what is it about?" For me it's the relationships--that's the key. It's all there. And there is no end to where you can go with it, there is nothing it can't apply to. In some way it is with me in every day. I'm not saying I have a big 'Aha!' everyday, but it is always there somehow. Even when the inner discipline wanes, sometimes it is just hanging by a thread, but it is still there, and my hardest work now, especially dealing with depression, is engaging my will to get unstuck. It's like I've been shown this flower, and to be able to see that flower again, I have to dig the path myself this time. Someone led me through the path once, and the flower is still there, but I have to come around it another way. And I want to. You have to do it that way--it doesn't make sense otherwise. I do wonder sometimes, if having a teacher is the old way, and having the answer come from outside yourself is the old way, but sometimes I do wonder, because it is so hard and there are so many distractions, and there is so much to swim against. It makes me wonder if there isn't some kind of support, some way we can support each other that isn't teacher-student. It seems like there could be some place in between. Maybe that will come out of the fact that so many people come back to this.